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Fantasy » alt.fan.pratchett » [I] Anaesthetics and ouch
| [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286704] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 22:03 |
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At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be
going in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed. Nothing
malignant, but apparently it can get nasty if it gets inflamed.
Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only -
which I've already discounted - epidural (which I don't like the sound
of, if it as I'm told involves needles and spines) or full out-cold gas.
Now, I quite like the idea of dreaming of electric sheep while
unpleasant choppy things happen further south, but I'm informed that
interesting projectile vomiting may accompany the subsequent return to
consciousness. Never having had "real" surgery before, and being
something of a vomophobe, this potential relinquishing of lunch also
seems like a not altogether delightful prospect.
So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and unpleasantness a
definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you may throw up a bit
and feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just want to go for a bit
of a walk"? Because if it isn't a definite, I'll take that over a Black
& Decker to the vertebra any day.
I may be stretching the definition of [I] a bit, but hey, if AFP doesn't
know...
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286713 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 22:11 |
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Torak wrote:
> At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be
> going in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed.
> Nothing malignant, but apparently it can get nasty if it gets
> inflamed.
> Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only -
> which I've already discounted
I have been awake under local for a similar procedure--a biopsy--and it
mainly involved unpleasant tugging sensations.
Any reason you're set against it?
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286714 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 22:16 |
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Torak said:
> At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be
> going in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed. Nothing
> malignant, but apparently it can get nasty if it gets inflamed.
>
> Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only -
> which I've already discounted - epidural (which I don't like the sound
> of, if it as I'm told involves needles and spines) or full out-cold gas.
>
> Now, I quite like the idea of dreaming of electric sheep while
> unpleasant choppy things happen further south, but I'm informed that
> interesting projectile vomiting may accompany the subsequent return to
> consciousness.
That's why you're supposed to not eat for several months before the
operation. Actually, about six hours. It just *seems* like several months.
Six hours is long enough to empty your stomach, according to my wife.
Projectile vomiting? In all her born days, she's never heard such nonsense.
(Hey, don't shoot the messenger.)
Can I just take this opportunity to offer a hint for those of you
considering marriage? If you have a delicate stomach, or are remotely
squeamish, or like your mealtimes to be spent in happy ignorance of the
wonderful world of bodily malfunctions, DON'T marry a nurse.
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286726 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 22:53 |
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"Torak" <perry_awm [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:EG_ig.1965$YI3.1160 [at] amstwist00...
> At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be going
> in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed. Nothing malignant,
> but apparently it can get nasty if it gets inflamed.
>
> Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only - which
> I've already discounted - epidural (which I don't like the sound of, if it
> as I'm told involves needles and spines) or full out-cold gas.
>
> Now, I quite like the idea of dreaming of electric sheep while unpleasant
> choppy things happen further south, but I'm informed that interesting
> projectile vomiting may accompany the subsequent return to consciousness.
> Never having had "real" surgery before, and being something of a
> vomophobe, this potential relinquishing of lunch also seems like a not
> altogether delightful prospect.
>
> So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and unpleasantness a
> definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you may throw up a bit and
> feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just want to go for a bit of a
> walk"? Because if it isn't a definite, I'll take that over a Black &
> Decker to the vertebra any day.
>
> I may be stretching the definition of [I] a bit, but hey, if AFP doesn't
> know...
OK - I've undergone surgery using all 3 of your options.
A lot of the possible vomiting is in part anything you've still got
in your stomach - when they say fast - really mean it!
It's worth it in the long run - also try not to over tax your stomach after
the
event. I know you'll be feeling like your starving, but take it slow.
One of the ONLY times I have thrown up afterward is because I
overloaded my stomach - I have a problem with gastritis which kicks in
if I've not eaten for a while and ate too much.
Also you may react badly to the drug - this is very low risk these days as
they
are pretty careful to check your sensitivity and tolerance.
Epidural was ... not pleasant but that said it was VERY effective!
Both of my children had to be evicted from me :-)
And I elected to have the caesarean under an epidural so I could be
a part of the birth - some good stories there too - but I won't scare people
;->>
Local ..... Hmm! .... can be good - depends where.
Mine was in the hand (right nerve sheaf) and I can agree with
Anastasia, there was tugging but ... it *really* depends where the
surgery is going to occur
HTH,
Ssirienna
--
2 spiders approach Garfield (drinking mug of coffee) Spider: "Hey Cat!"
continues: "This is my lawyer Sid. I have a restraining order against you!"
continues: "Uh, why the smile?"
Garfield (smiling): "I've never squished a lawyer".
(c) Garfield 26 Feb 2004
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286733 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:07 |
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On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 22:03:42 +0200, Torak <perry_awm [at] hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and unpleasantness a
>definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you may throw up a bit
>and feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just want to go for a bit
>of a walk"? Because if it isn't a definite, I'll take that over a Black
>& Decker to the vertebra any day.
>
>I may be stretching the definition of [I] a bit, but hey, if AFP doesn't
>know...
Speaking as someone who has been under the knife more often than most,
I can give you a bit of advice, should you decide to take it. I've
never had an epidural, and don't fancy it, so I can't tell you about
that. The full thing is actually an injection too, not just gas (at
least that's how I have it). What happens is as follows.
the aneasthetist comes and talks to you, then you get wheeled in to
the room before the theater (can't remember what it's called) and they
give you a general aneasthetic. This takes a few seconds to take
effect, then you go in for your operation.
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286736 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:16 |
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> So, what's the least unpleasant option?
Well, I had a vasectomy while under local. I was probably more freaked
during the operation than was really deserved-- well, I suspect most
males freak any time they're aware of any knife in that vicinity-- but I
mostly wasn't aware of what was going on, other than when they tugged
stuff attached to areas not numbed. That felt *odd*.
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286737 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:11 |
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"Torak" <perry_awm [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:EG_ig.1965$YI3.1160 [at] amstwist00...
> At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be
> going in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed. Nothing
> malignant, but apparently it can get nasty if it gets inflamed.
>
> Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only -
> which I've already discounted - epidural (which I don't like the sound
> of, if it as I'm told involves needles and spines) or full out-cold
> gas.
>
> Now, I quite like the idea of dreaming of electric sheep while
> unpleasant choppy things happen further south, but I'm informed that
> interesting projectile vomiting may accompany the subsequent return to
> consciousness. Never having had "real" surgery before, and being
> something of a vomophobe, this potential relinquishing of lunch also
> seems like a not altogether delightful prospect.
>
> So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and unpleasantness
> a definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you may throw up a
> bit and feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just want to go for a
> bit of a walk"? Because if it isn't a definite, I'll take that over a
> Black & Decker to the vertebra any day.
>
> I may be stretching the definition of [I] a bit, but hey, if AFP
> doesn't know...
I've had a general anaesthetic on a number of occasions and all I've
ever felt at worse was a bit spaced when I walked out of the hospital
shortly after coming round - military job so a case of, if you can stand
and walk to the desk your discharged, oh by the way sign this even
though you're not meant to sign anything for 24hrs after it. But then
my family seem to have a tolerance for anaesthetics and tend to shake
them off pretty rapidly, much to the surprise of Doctors etc. But I
have *never* heard of anyone vomiting let alone projectile vomiting
after full anaesthesia, maybe years ago with a different drug, but not
now. As to locals, a tugging now and again dependant where the site of
the op is, so I'm told, but I've never had one except at a Dentist's.
As to Epidurals, well the only person I know of who has ever had one is
my current wife who reckoned it didn't do anything for her, but then as
she was in labour at the time and Rosemary was born before the time it
was meant to start kicking in, I can't say as to it's effectiveness - no
real data in other words - but it was a quick and simple thing in it's
administration with only mild discomfort whilst it was done.
Steve
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| Re: Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286740 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:24 |
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Torak wrote:
> At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be
> going in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed. Nothing
> malignant, but apparently it can get nasty if it gets inflamed.
>
> Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only -
> which I've already discounted - epidural (which I don't like the sound
> of, if it as I'm told involves needles and spines) or full out-cold gas.
>
Snip
I've had General andaesthetic and epidural and quite honestly the easy
option for me is epidural (I can't have general again because of the
COPD) The last time I had a general I got a chest infection that really
knocked me back.
If it helps my experience of epidural is that it is the easiest way
(It was just a small jab (1)in the back - local anaesthetic) after that
I didn't feel anything until they brought my legs back!
I am due for a cateract removal later this year which I understand is
done under local I really aren't looking forward to it
(1) I had to rewrite this to keep it out of the gutter
BriD
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286744 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:27 |
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Torak <perry_awm [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be
> going in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed. Nothing
> malignant, but apparently it can get nasty if it gets inflamed.
>
> Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only -
> which I've already discounted - epidural (which I don't like the sound
> of, if it as I'm told involves needles and spines) or full out-cold
> gas.
> Now, I quite like the idea of dreaming of electric sheep while
> unpleasant choppy things happen further south, but I'm informed that
> interesting projectile vomiting may accompany the subsequent return to
> consciousness. Never having had "real" surgery before, and being
> something of a vomophobe, this potential relinquishing of lunch also
> seems like a not altogether delightful prospect.
>
> So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and
> unpleasantness a definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you
> may throw up a bit and feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just
> want to go for a bit of a walk"? Because if it isn't a definite, I'll
> take that over a Black & Decker to the vertebra any day.
>
> I may be stretching the definition of [I] a bit, but hey, if AFP
> doesn't know...
If I were you, I'd ask your doctor to speak to an anasthetician about it, as
they know the most about the procedures and possibly how they would relate
to your particular situation.
I've gone through all three procedures, and was unlucky with an epidural, in
that some nerves got damaged by the needle, so I have a "dead" area on my
right hip/side where I can't feel anything. Full out narcose? Well, two of
the most frequent (but still very infrequent) side effects are brain damage
and death. If I were to do something like this soon, I'd go with local
anasthetics, like I did back in December when I had a cyst removed (which
turned out to be "benign"[1]). Yes, the tugging feeling makes me feel sick,
but the risks of serious damage are reduced from "almost negligible" to
"almost nil". And personally I like to watch exactly what the surgeon is
doing[2].
Depending on the surgeon, you might also be allowed to bring a walkman (or
similar) and listen to music, which some people feels helps.
[1]: Euphemism for "not malign". It clearly wasn't /benign/ if it wasn't
doing me any good. Still, thank goodness it wasn't malign, just
indifferent.
[2]: So I can whack him if he screws up, obviously.
Regards,
--
*Art
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286746 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:41 |
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Torak <perry_awm [at] hotmail.com> writes:
> At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be
> going in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed. Nothing
> malignant, but apparently it can get nasty if it gets inflamed.
>
> Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only -
> which I've already discounted - epidural (which I don't like the sound
> of, if it as I'm told involves needles and spines) or full out-cold
> gas.
>
> Now, I quite like the idea of dreaming of electric sheep while
> unpleasant choppy things happen further south, but I'm informed that
> interesting projectile vomiting may accompany the subsequent return to
> consciousness. Never having had "real" surgery before, and being
> something of a vomophobe, this potential relinquishing of lunch also
> seems like a not altogether delightful prospect.
>
> So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and unpleasantness
> a definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you may throw up a
> bit and feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just want to go for a
> bit of a walk"? Because if it isn't a definite, I'll take that over a
> Black & Decker to the vertebra any day.
>
> I may be stretching the definition of [I] a bit, but hey, if AFP
> doesn't know...
Nausea after a general anaesthetic is not guarranteed, and you're
generally too woozy to be bothered by it that much. It wears off
faster than a hangover. Typically you'ld starve yourself for a day or
so before the op so there wouldn't be much to chuck anyhow.
However, having a general anaesthetic when you don't need to is not
sensible. Something like 1 in 1000 has complications up to and
including death. Lots of effort goes into being able to do as much
routine surgery as possible without general anaesthesia. Even some
quite invasive abdominal surgery is done under local nowadays --
zapping kidney stones with ultrasound for example, which requires
inserting a probe into the kidney.
If you're worried about pain, choose the epidural. They'll probably
send you off to happy-land with Prozac (or similar) during the
operation so little things like having needles stuck in your spine
won't seem at all important.
Cheers,
Matthew
--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard
Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
Kent, CT11 9PW
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286748 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:45 |
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Anastasia wrote:
> Torak wrote:
>
>>At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be
>>going in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed.
>>Nothing malignant, but apparently it can get nasty if it gets
>>inflamed.
>>Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only -
>>which I've already discounted
>
>
> I have been awake under local for a similar procedure--a biopsy--and it
> mainly involved unpleasant tugging sensations.
Yeah, but you get tattoos and things for fun. :-p
> Any reason you're set against it?
I basically don't like being awake while people are poking sharp objects
into me. I like falling asleep and being blissfully unaware of
everything until I wake up in time for CSI.
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286749 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:47 |
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Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>> So, what's the least unpleasant option?
> other than when they tugged stuff attached to areas not numbed.
> That felt *odd*.
And not in a good way. I believe I mentioned the unpleasant tugging
sensation. Euurgh. It's worth mentioning again.
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286750 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:49 |
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Richard Heathfield wrote:
> Torak said:
>
>>At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be
>>going in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed. Nothing
>>malignant, but apparently it can get nasty if it gets inflamed.
>>
>>Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only -
>>which I've already discounted - epidural (which I don't like the sound
>>of, if it as I'm told involves needles and spines) or full out-cold gas.
>>
>>Now, I quite like the idea of dreaming of electric sheep while
>>unpleasant choppy things happen further south, but I'm informed that
>>interesting projectile vomiting may accompany the subsequent return to
>>consciousness.
>
> That's why you're supposed to not eat for several months before the
> operation. Actually, about six hours. It just *seems* like several months.
Hah, tell me about it. I went for a blood test last autumn, and they
said I shouldn't eat the day before it. So I didn't - ate dinner on the
Sunday, then went without on the Monday and through to my test on
Tuesday afternoon, except a packet of M&Ms on Monday evening.
Then it turned out that they usually do the tests in the morning, and
that they meant "after dinner on Monday". And there was me feeling
guilty about the M&Ms...
> Six hours is long enough to empty your stomach, according to my wife.
Ah, good.
> Projectile vomiting? In all her born days, she's never heard such nonsense.
> (Hey, don't shoot the messenger.)
Some hyperbole may have entered my post for poetic license.
> Can I just take this opportunity to offer a hint for those of you
> considering marriage? If you have a delicate stomach, or are remotely
> squeamish, or like your mealtimes to be spent in happy ignorance of the
> wonderful world of bodily malfunctions, DON'T marry a nurse.
Well, I read forensics and medical manuals just out of interest... it's
really only injections, eyes and vomit that bother me - and alterations
of my own structural integrity, of course.
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286751 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:50 |
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Torak wrote:
> Anastasia wrote:
>> Torak wrote:
>>
>>> Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only
>>> - which I've already discounted
>>
>>
>> I have been awake under local for a similar procedure--a
>> biopsy--and it mainly involved unpleasant tugging sensations.
>
> Yeah, but you get tattoos and things for fun. :-p
This is true. That tugging is WAAAAAY more unsettling than a little pain ANY
day, IMO.
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286753 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:51 |
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Lister wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 22:03:42 +0200, Torak <perry_awm [at] hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and unpleasantness a
>>definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you may throw up a bit
>>and feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just want to go for a bit
>>of a walk"? Because if it isn't a definite, I'll take that over a Black
>>& Decker to the vertebra any day.
>>
>>I may be stretching the definition of [I] a bit, but hey, if AFP doesn't
>>know...
>
> Speaking as someone who has been under the knife more often than most,
> I can give you a bit of advice, should you decide to take it. I've
> never had an epidural, and don't fancy it, so I can't tell you about
> that. The full thing is actually an injection too, not just gas (at
> least that's how I have it). What happens is as follows.
>
> the aneasthetist comes and talks to you, then you get wheeled in to
> the room before the theater (can't remember what it's called) and they
> give you a general aneasthetic. This takes a few seconds to take
> effect, then you go in for your operation.
That's a jab in the arm, isn't it? At what point do you lose
consciousness? In the prep room or the OR? What's it like?
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286756 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:55 |
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Arthur Hagen wrote:
> Torak <perry_awm [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be
>> going in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed. Nothing
>> malignant, but apparently it can get nasty if it gets inflamed.
>>
>> Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only -
>> which I've already discounted - epidural (which I don't like the sound
>> of, if it as I'm told involves needles and spines) or full out-cold
>> gas.
>> Now, I quite like the idea of dreaming of electric sheep while
>> unpleasant choppy things happen further south, but I'm informed that
>> interesting projectile vomiting may accompany the subsequent return to
>> consciousness. Never having had "real" surgery before, and being
>> something of a vomophobe, this potential relinquishing of lunch also
>> seems like a not altogether delightful prospect.
>>
>> So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and
>> unpleasantness a definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you
>> may throw up a bit and feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just
>> want to go for a bit of a walk"? Because if it isn't a definite, I'll
>> take that over a Black & Decker to the vertebra any day.
>>
>> I may be stretching the definition of [I] a bit, but hey, if AFP
>> doesn't know...
>
>
> If I were you, I'd ask your doctor to speak to an anasthetician about
> it, as they know the most about the procedures and possibly how they
> would relate to your particular situation.
>
> I've gone through all three procedures, and was unlucky with an
> epidural, in that some nerves got damaged by the needle, so I have a
> "dead" area on my right hip/side where I can't feel anything. Full out
> narcose? Well, two of the most frequent (but still very infrequent)
> side effects are brain damage and death. If I were to do something like
> this soon, I'd go with local anasthetics, like I did back in December
> when I had a cyst removed (which turned out to be "benign"[1]). Yes,
Much the same as I'm having, then.
> the tugging feeling makes me feel sick, but the risks of serious damage
> are reduced from "almost negligible" to "almost nil". And personally I
> like to watch exactly what the surgeon is doing[2].
I don't, at least not while it's going on. Besides, I... um... won't
have a line of sight.
> Depending on the surgeon, you might also be allowed to bring a walkman
> (or similar) and listen to music, which some people feels helps.
At the very least, I'd want a DVD player and Paul McKenna.
> [1]: Euphemism for "not malign". It clearly wasn't /benign/ if it
> wasn't doing me any good. Still, thank goodness it wasn't malign, just
> indifferent.
> [2]: So I can whack him if he screws up, obviously.
"Whack him" in the Chicago sense?
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286757 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:59 |
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Matthew Seaman wrote:
>
> Nausea after a general anaesthetic is not guarranteed, and you're
> generally too woozy to be bothered by it that much. It wears off
> faster than a hangover. Typically you'ld starve yourself for a day or
> so before the op so there wouldn't be much to chuck anyhow.
"Faster than a hangover"... How long does a hangover take to wear off?
> However, having a general anaesthetic when you don't need to is not
> sensible. Something like 1 in 1000 has complications up to and
> including death. Lots of effort goes into being able to do as much
> routine surgery as possible without general anaesthesia. Even some
> quite invasive abdominal surgery is done under local nowadays --
> zapping kidney stones with ultrasound for example, which requires
> inserting a probe into the kidney.
Right... well, I usually manage with quite low doses of painkillers (two
or three Paracetamol a year, on average, and generally the half dose
does the trick), so perhaps the doses will be small enough to be fairly
safe.
> If you're worried about pain, choose the epidural. They'll probably
> send you off to happy-land with Prozac (or similar) during the
> operation so little things like having needles stuck in your spine
> won't seem at all important.
Oowwww....
Well, folks, thanks for the comments... I'm leaning towards the gas
right now, but I'll take Art's advice and chat to the anaesthesiologist.
Actually, I bought a five-inch-thick book called "The Practice Of
Anaesthesia" a couple of years ago, never got round to reading it... If
I can find it, now seems the time to dig it out.
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286762 ] |
So, 11 Juni 2006 23:22 |
|
Torak perry_awm [at] hotmail.com wrote in <EG_ig.1965$YI3.1160 [at] amstwist00>:
>
> So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and unpleasantness a
> definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you may throw up a bit
> and feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just want to go for a bit
> of a walk"? Because if it isn't a definite, I'll take that over a Black
> & Decker to the vertebra any day.
>
The local anaesthetic is in my experience far better. Take a good book,
chat up the nurses, invent stories, there are a lot of ways to ignore the
fact that some medics are doing something unspeakable you'd rather not
know about. The others are a far bigger risk.
I rarely get the option since I'm asthmatic and they seriously don't want
to give me a general anaesthetic if it's at all possible to avoid it. On
the rare (three) occasions it's happened I've felt totally lousy for
several hours afterwards.
--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
|
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286763 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:04 |
|
Torak said:
> Matthew Seaman wrote:
>>
>> Nausea after a general anaesthetic is not guarranteed, and you're
>> generally too woozy to be bothered by it that much. It wears off
>> faster than a hangover. Typically you'ld starve yourself for a day or
>> so before the op so there wouldn't be much to chuck anyhow.
>
> "Faster than a hangover"... How long does a hangover take to wear off?
It takes a little longer than a general anaesthetic.
<snip>
> Actually, I bought a five-inch-thick book called "The Practice Of
> Anaesthesia" a couple of years ago, never got round to reading it... If
> I can find it, now seems the time to dig it out.
....and when you open it, you will find that the pages have been glued and
hollowed out, to form a cavity which is just large enough to contain a
hammer with the words "ANAESTHETIC - HOLD THIS END AND DO THE OBVIOUS"
written on the handle in bold, friendly letters.
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
|
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286766 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:09 |
|
"Torak" <perry_awm [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Rf0jg.1982$YI3.1593 [at] amstwist00...
> Lister wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 22:03:42 +0200, Torak <perry_awm [at] hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and
>>>unpleasantness a definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you
>>>may throw up a bit and feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just
>>>want to go for a bit of a walk"? Because if it isn't a definite, I'll
>>>take that over a Black & Decker to the vertebra any day.
>>>
>>>I may be stretching the definition of [I] a bit, but hey, if AFP
>>>doesn't know...
>>
>> Speaking as someone who has been under the knife more often than
>> most,
>> I can give you a bit of advice, should you decide to take it. I've
>> never had an epidural, and don't fancy it, so I can't tell you about
>> that. The full thing is actually an injection too, not just gas (at
>> least that's how I have it). What happens is as follows.
>>
>> the aneasthetist comes and talks to you, then you get wheeled in to
>> the room before the theater (can't remember what it's called) and
>> they
>> give you a general aneasthetic. This takes a few seconds to take
>> effect, then you go in for your operation.
>
> That's a jab in the arm, isn't it? At what point do you lose
> consciousness? In the prep room or the OR? What's it like?
A room with lots of interesting stuff in - An injection is administered
to the patient and a gowned figure asks them to count down from 10 for
them.
10
9
8
7
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
or if you're like my lot
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
0
Shall I start counting back up now?
Steve
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286769 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:17 |
|
> > other than when they tugged stuff attached to areas not numbed.
> > That felt *odd*.
>
> And not in a good way. I believe I mentioned the unpleasant tugging
> sensation. Euurgh. It's worth mentioning again.
Well, I'ld call it "biziarre" rather than "unpleasant". Along the lines
of "I know that's not where you're operating; why do I feel anything
there?" And then your mind starts supplying you with reasons *why* you
could be feeling stuff there...
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286772 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:21 |
|
Steve Rogers wrote:
> "Torak" <perry_awm [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Rf0jg.1982$YI3.1593 [at] amstwist00...
>
>>Lister wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 22:03:42 +0200, Torak <perry_awm [at] hotmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and
>>>>unpleasantness a definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you
>>>>may throw up a bit and feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just
>>>>want to go for a bit of a walk"? Because if it isn't a definite, I'll
>>>>take that over a Black & Decker to the vertebra any day.
>>>>
>>>>I may be stretching the definition of [I] a bit, but hey, if AFP
>>>>doesn't know...
>>>
>>>Speaking as someone who has been under the knife more often than
>>>most,
>>>I can give you a bit of advice, should you decide to take it. I've
>>>never had an epidural, and don't fancy it, so I can't tell you about
>>>that. The full thing is actually an injection too, not just gas (at
>>>least that's how I have it). What happens is as follows.
>>>
>>>the aneasthetist comes and talks to you, then you get wheeled in to
>>>the room before the theater (can't remember what it's called) and
>>>they
>>>give you a general aneasthetic. This takes a few seconds to take
>>>effect, then you go in for your operation.
>>
>>That's a jab in the arm, isn't it? At what point do you lose
>>consciousness? In the prep room or the OR? What's it like?
>
>
> A room with lots of interesting stuff in - An injection is administered
> to the patient and a gowned figure asks them to count down from 10 for
> them.
> 10
> 9
> 8
> 7
> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
>
>
>
>
>
> or if you're like my lot
>
> 10
> 9
> 8
> 7
> 6
> 5
> 4
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 0
> Shall I start counting back up now?
My maternal grandad - was in the war, shrapnel, all sorts - had rather a
lot of operations. During one, the surgeon leaned over and said absently
- thinking my grandad was unconscious - "Might be about time to give you
another dose of gas".[1]
My grandad opened his eyes and said "That? Oh, that ran out half an hour
ago."
I suppose, when you've got bits of metal popping out of your arm every
few months for forty years, your pain threshold adapts a bit...
[1] - From memory, and passed through my very limited understanding of
gas anaesthesia
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286773 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:22 |
|
Hello everyone,
> [general chit-chat and advises concerning the cutting-open of people
> without them noticing much]
Well people, I have to take an operation soon (on my testicles no less),
and I must say, that you are /not/ helping me. ;-)
I'm not feeling really good about all three alternatives mentioned so
far (general anesthetics, local anesthetics and Epidural).
With local anesthetics, I do not like the prospect of an "unpleasant
tugging", which Anastasia finds more unsettling than pain.
The problem I have with general anesthetics is, that I do not feel good
about letting me knocked out with an injection and much less with gas.
It' silly really, but I don't like that. I won't go on about the 0.1%
chance of dying...
And Epidural, well the picture on <http://www.mjbovo.com/Epidural.htm>
was enough for me. ;-)
Hm, I think I shall pick whatever my doctor recommends me, failing that,
local.
Well, to tell you the truth I'm not looking forward to the whole thing!
That all just had to be said. ;-)
Cheers,
--
Philipp Tölke
PGP 0x96A1FE7A
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286774 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:22 |
|
Richard Heathfield wrote:
> Torak said:
>
>
>>Matthew Seaman wrote:
>>
>>>Nausea after a general anaesthetic is not guarranteed, and you're
>>>generally too woozy to be bothered by it that much. It wears off
>>>faster than a hangover. Typically you'ld starve yourself for a day or
>>>so before the op so there wouldn't be much to chuck anyhow.
>>
>>"Faster than a hangover"... How long does a hangover take to wear off?
>
>
> It takes a little longer than a general anaesthetic.
Oh, good. Glad that's sorted then.
> <snip>
>
>>Actually, I bought a five-inch-thick book called "The Practice Of
>>Anaesthesia" a couple of years ago, never got round to reading it... If
>>I can find it, now seems the time to dig it out.
>
>
> ....and when you open it, you will find that the pages have been glued and
> hollowed out, to form a cavity which is just large enough to contain a
> hammer with the words "ANAESTHETIC - HOLD THIS END AND DO THE OBVIOUS"
> written on the handle in bold, friendly letters.
You have no idea how much I hope you're right.
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286775 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:23 |
|
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>>> other than when they tugged stuff attached to areas not numbed.
>>> That felt *odd*.
>>
>> And not in a good way. I believe I mentioned the unpleasant tugging
>> sensation. Euurgh. It's worth mentioning again.
>
> Well, I'ld call it "biziarre" rather than "unpleasant".
It is bizarre, and I do not find it at all pleasant. I find it ....well, I
already said.
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
|
|
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286776 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:24 |
|
Anastasia wrote:
> Torak wrote:
>
>>Anastasia wrote:
>>
>>>Torak wrote:
>>>
>
>
>>>>Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only
>>>>- which I've already discounted
>>>
>>>
>>>I have been awake under local for a similar procedure--a
>>>biopsy--and it mainly involved unpleasant tugging sensations.
>>
>>Yeah, but you get tattoos and things for fun. :-p
>
>
> This is true. That tugging is WAAAAAY more unsettling than a little pain ANY
> day, IMO.
So worse, you'd say, than getting a tattoo and a piercing at the same time?
Having had neither, but several vaccinations and at least three blood
tests, that more or less settles it.
Gas it is. :-)
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286778 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:27 |
|
Philipp Tölke wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
>
>>[general chit-chat and advises concerning the cutting-open of people
>>without them noticing much]
>
>
> Well people, I have to take an operation soon (on my testicles no less),
> and I must say, that you are /not/ helping me. ;-)
>
> I'm not feeling really good about all three alternatives mentioned so
> far (general anesthetics, local anesthetics and Epidural).
> With local anesthetics, I do not like the prospect of an "unpleasant
> tugging", which Anastasia finds more unsettling than pain.
> The problem I have with general anesthetics is, that I do not feel good
> about letting me knocked out with an injection and much less with gas.
> It' silly really, but I don't like that. I won't go on about the 0.1%
> chance of dying...
> And Epidural, well the picture on <http://www.mjbovo.com/Epidural.htm>
> was enough for me. ;-)
In my case, it was an article in Reader's Digest back in the eighties,
where the epidural was administered through a vertebra, and they had to
twist the...
Actually, I'm genuinely having considerable trouble just writing about
it. So not that, I think.
(Yeah, slightly phobic of needles. I once travelled across a classroom
by way of the desktops when I saw a wasp enter the room. On another
occasion I was dragged, literally kicking and screaming, in for my MMR
jab. After the jab I abruptly ceased, and looked down in surprise at my
arm. "It... it didn't hurt...?")
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286785 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:42 |
|
Philipp Tölke wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
>> [general chit-chat and advises concerning the cutting-open of
>> people without them noticing much]
<snip, ouch>
> With local anesthetics, I do not like the prospect of an "unpleasant
> tugging", which Anastasia finds more unsettling than pain.
> The problem I have with general anesthetics is, that I do
On this one I suppose I ought to remind you to consider the source.
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
|
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286789 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:51 |
|
Torak wrote:
> Anastasia wrote:
>> Torak wrote:
>>
>>> Anastasia wrote:
>>>
>>>> Torak wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>>> Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local
>>>>> only - which I've already discounted
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been awake under local for a similar procedure--a
>>>> biopsy--and it mainly involved unpleasant tugging sensations.
>>>
>>> Yeah, but you get tattoos and things for fun. :-p
>>
>>
>> This is true. That tugging is WAAAAAY more unsettling than a
>> little pain ANY day, IMO.
>
> So worse, you'd say, than getting a tattoo and a piercing at the
> same time?
The same instant, or the same night? Because in one case, I got an ear
pierced to fill the time while the tatto artist got his gear ready.
I am capable of holding perfectly still through the process of having 12
holes poked in my hide in series[1]; But in your example, I'd be afraid of
the tattoo going wonky if I *did* move.
But hypodermically speaking, the tugging is icky.
..
..
..
.. The footnote is ROT-13, but deserves a bit o' squick space.
..
..
...
..
...
..
..
[1] Ng n erprag tngurevat, V gbbx cneg va n cvrepvat qrzbafgengvba, nyybjvat
n sevraq gb cresbez n fvk-cbvag pbefrg cvrepvat ba zr. V unir gur cvpf--gb
or ubarfg, gurl znxr *zr* n gnq hapbzsbegnoyr, ohg vs lbh ner vagb obql
zbqvsvpngvba, r-znvy zr.
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
|
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286801 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 00:48 |
|
Lister fache [at] SPAMclara.net wrote in
<gg0p825s20cltqpgbt5h70spc38r786bt5 [at] 4ax.com>:
>
> Speaking as someone who has been under the knife more often than most,
> I can give you a bit of advice, should you decide to take it.
>
Shouldn't you be giving advice about vaccination instead?
--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286803 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 01:05 |
|
Eric Jarvis wrote:
> Lister fache [at] SPAMclara.net wrote in
> <gg0p825s20cltqpgbt5h70spc38r786bt5 [at] 4ax.com>:
>>
>> Speaking as someone who has been under the knife more often than
>> most, I can give you a bit of advice, should you decide to take it.
>>
>
> Shouldn't you be giving advice about vaccination instead?
No, he should be giving advice about antiseptics. You're thinking of
Jenner.
Peter
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286808 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 01:16 |
|
in article EG_ig.1965$YI3.1160 [at] amstwist00, Torak at perry_awm [at] hotmail.com
wrote on 11/06/2006 1:03 PM:
> At some point in the next few months I'll probably ("hopefully"?) be
> going in for some minor surgery to have a small cyst removed. Nothing
> malignant, but apparently it can get nasty if it gets inflamed.
>
> Now, I'm told there are three options for anaesthetic. Local only -
> which I've already discounted - epidural (which I don't like the sound
> of, if it as I'm told involves needles and spines) or full out-cold gas.
>
> Now, I quite like the idea of dreaming of electric sheep while
> unpleasant choppy things happen further south, but I'm informed that
> interesting projectile vomiting may accompany the subsequent return to
> consciousness. Never having had "real" surgery before, and being
> something of a vomophobe, this potential relinquishing of lunch also
> seems like a not altogether delightful prospect.
>
> So, what's the least unpleasant option? Is vomiting and unpleasantness a
> definite with complete anaesthesia, or is it a "you may throw up a bit
> and feel queasy when you wake up, or you may just want to go for a bit
> of a walk"?
Different people react differently, so the vomiting could certainly happen -
it has to me. Personally, having had all three at various times, I'd go with
the local. You can ask them to give you tranquillisers beforehand if you
like; then you get to dream about Priss without any after effects.
--
Lesley Weston.
Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286817 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 02:21 |
|
Peter Ellis wrote:
> Eric Jarvis wrote:
>
>>Lister fache [at] SPAMclara.net wrote in
>><gg0p825s20cltqpgbt5h70spc38r786bt5 [at] 4ax.com>:
>>
>>>Speaking as someone who has been under the knife more often than
>>>most, I can give you a bit of advice, should you decide to take it.
>>>
>>
>>Shouldn't you be giving advice about vaccination instead?
>
>
> No, he should be giving advice about antiseptics. You're thinking of
> Jenner.
All right.
Mouthwash, then.
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286818 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 02:22 |
|
Torak wrote:
> I basically don't like being awake while people are poking sharp objects
> into me. I like falling asleep and being blissfully unaware of
> everything until I wake up in time for CSI.
Are you crazy?? Watching the doctor cut you open and getting to look
inside your own body is the Funnest! Thing! Ever!!
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286824 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 02:27 |
|
peachy ashie passion wrote:
> Torak wrote:
>
>
>> I basically don't like being awake while people are poking sharp
>> objects into me. I like falling asleep and being blissfully
>> unaware of everything until I wake up in time for CSI.
>
>
> Are you crazy?? Watching the doctor cut you open and getting to
> look inside your own body is the Funnest! Thing! Ever!!
Yeeeeeeeeesh.
Although it was sort of fun, after I woke up, to see the pictures the doctor
had taken of my ovaries. I never expected to see pictures of my very own
ovaries.
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286825 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 02:34 |
|
Anastasia wrote:
> I am capable of holding perfectly still through the process of having 12
> holes poked in my hide in series[1]
> [1] Ng n erprag tngurevat, V gbbx cneg va n cvrepvat qrzbafgengvba, nyybjvat
> n sevraq gb cresbez n fvk-cbvag pbefrg cvrepvat ba zr. V unir gur cvpf--gb
> or ubarfg, gurl znxr *zr* n gnq hapbzsbegnoyr, ohg vs lbh ner vagb obql
> zbqvsvpngvba, r-znvy zr.
Was that the noise you made while they were doing it? :-)
(Yes, yes, I *know*...But I don't know exactly what, because Thunderbird
doesn't have ROT-13 built in)
--
Regards
Nigel Stapley
www.judgemental.plus.com
<reply-to will bounce>
|
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286828 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 02:37 |
|
Torak wrote:
> (Yeah, slightly phobic of needles. I once travelled across a classroom
> by way of the desktops when I saw a wasp enter the room. On another
> occasion I was dragged, literally kicking and screaming, in for my MMR
> jab. After the jab I abruptly ceased, and looked down in surprise at my
> arm. "It... it didn't hurt...?")
As an insulin-dependent diabetic for 15 years, my squeamishness about
needles had to be jettisoned PDQ.
re. wasps, however, I'm with you all the way across the desktops.
--
Regards
Nigel Stapley
www.judgemental.plus.com
<reply-to will bounce>
|
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286831 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 02:45 |
|
Nigel Stapley wrote:
> Anastasia wrote:
>
>> I am capable of holding perfectly still through the process of
>> having 12 holes poked in my hide in series[1]
>
<snip>
>
> Was that the noise you made while they were doing it? :-)
No, I didn't make a sound, thank you very much.
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
|
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286832 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 02:52 |
|
Nigel Stapley wrote:
> Anastasia wrote:
>
>> I am capable of holding perfectly still through the process of having
>> 12 holes poked in my hide in series[1]
>
>
>> [1] Ng n erprag tngurevat, V gbbx cneg va n cvrepvat qrzbafgengvba,
>> nyybjvat n sevraq gb cresbez n fvk-cbvag pbefrg cvrepvat ba zr. V unir
>> gur cvpf--gb or ubarfg, gurl znxr *zr* n gnq hapbzsbegnoyr, ohg vs lbh
>> ner vagb obql zbqvsvpngvba, r-znvy zr.
>
>
> Was that the noise you made while they were doing it? :-)
>
> (Yes, yes, I *know*...But I don't know exactly what, because Thunderbird
> doesn't have ROT-13 built in)
http://www.rot13.com/
|
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| Re: [I] Anaesthetics and ouch [message #286833 ] |
Mo, 12 Juni 2006 02:56 |
|
peachy ashie passion wrote:
> Nigel Stapley wrote:
>
>> Anastasia wrote:
>>
>>> I am capable of holding perfectly still through the process of
>>> having 12 holes poked in my hide in series[1]
>>
>>
>>> [1] Ng n erprag tngurevat
<snip>
>>
>> Was that the noise you made while they were doing it? :-)
>>
>> (Yes, yes, I *know*...But I don't know exactly what, because
>> Thunderbird doesn't have ROT-13 built in)
>
> http://www.rot13.com/
You guys keep taking out my squick space.
Peach, MY theory was that if anyone wanted to know, they could find out.
Quit helping!
--
4th swordswoman of the afpocalypse, AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons,
Bondage-happy predator, Speaker-To-Students, SadoMangoist,
AFPMistress to peachy, 8'FED's AFPDeliciousSnack, AFPFiance to A.
Nevill , Graycat's Guttersnipe
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